All of the odd numbered Teams (1, 3, 5, and 7) are based in Coronado, CA. Is there a place I could go to see how many Frogmen that my Father knows are still alive? Thank you, Hey Wendy, Someone sent me an email last week trying to verify if one of his buddies was actually a SEAL. Transfer Rope 10. 12/02/22 00:15:08. The 40 other local men are being investigated to determine if their names should be there too, a CyberSEALs spokeswoman said. Track our progress on our Awards page.. Sooner or later it will catch up with him. Vet. 8. Thanks to these guys that served. Paul would give advice on workouts, on the life of a Navy SEAL, etc Military Phonies was contacted by someone inquiring about Pauls SEAL claims. And there are those who claim to be recipients of the Medal of Honor, the nation's most prestigious military citation. 16. Phony Navy SEAL of the WEEK. He isnt hunting down people telling mundane white lies, he is tracking down people who lie about being Navy SEALs. ``When I heard (Arrowood) was coming to the building, I thought, `Oh, geez, maybe I shouldn't have been doing that,' ' Ashman said. I have nothing but contempt for the piece of crap Ive just been reading about. At some point phase 2 and 3 got switched to put diving as 2nd phase, hence the blue. Not to bum out anyones day but at the Coronado facility, the Phil Bucklew building has been torn down, there is construction currently on the site. He ``claims his body is a registered lethal weapon. What an idiot. Then Paul makes a video after a SEAL Trainee died in BUD/S. Moeller's claims prompted complaints to Everette, who maintains the Medal of Honor Web site, and to CyberSEALs. Webthe wall of shame, aka stolen valor stooges. SEAL Team 6 doesnt count, because theyre basically their own thing. Everything below was thoroughly researched and checked for accuracy. He works at little villa now on wolf rd. This penasaurus probably couldnt make it thru a week of Air Force basic..or any other service. I am so glad someone caught this imagine the lies he would of continued with hurting people and acting like an actual soldier or hero like the ones that actually serve and are away from their families I dont get pieces of shit like Paul Puccillo the problem is there are many like him out there. Theres stolen valor and then theres youve-got-to-be-kidding-me-stolen-and-savaged valor. ``I think I know why you're here,' said one of the men, a Navy vet. One way to trip up a potential SEAL impostor is to ask him where on the BUD/S compound is the bell. Organizations that expose imposters say claims by bogus Rambos with enhanced military resumes have reached epidemic levels. Isnt he John Allen? Schantag said complaints mushroomed from two in 1997 to 7,000 last year. Ive actually spoken to him about writing for the site. Never would mention his wife and child though. He isnt hunting down people telling mundane white lies, he is tracking down people who lie about being Navy SEALs. Many of the tales he has told bespeak . But for the purposes of this article, if hes claiming he shot UBL, you can be sure its total B.S.. Havent you guys ever seen the movie Under Siege? Phony Navy SEAL of the Week. In the Northwest, a dozen cases involved fraud totaling more than $1.4 million, the report says. Contacted by phone recently, Moeller refused to discuss claims he may have made about being a SEAL or a decorated veteran. 7. 35. Rope Swing And it swarms with SEAL wannabes like Nolan. Paul was a SEAL mentor on a facebook page where young impressionable men that are striving to become part of one of the most Elite units in the world gather. EVERY MAN, without exception is listed there. Webthe wall of shame, aka stolen valor stooges. My husband has been having horrible PTSD thinking about theft of Valor and how Henry got a contractor job because of a lie. Thanks to you folks here for doing the heavy lifting, and sparing us all the disgust in exposing these phonies. The 40 other local men are being investigated to determine if their names should be there too, a CyberSEALs spokeswoman said. He lied to his family, he lied to many young men looking to become a SEAL. Barbed Wire 6. So how exactly do you check to see if someone was a Navy SEAL? He is a shameless self promoter, exaggerator and at times outright liar about certain claims. (I wasnt a SEAL). However, not everyone knows where the bell is. Image: Navysealmuseum.org. Don should have sent you a letter of verification, which is as good as gold. Bulls$%t. 20. . I really cant believe that someone would lie about something that is easily verified. Ramble on he was screwing the neighbor who had a disabled husband and was easy as walking in the back door while he was sleeping so the comments above are probably true also. Doesnt talk much about it. Navy.'. Just FYI, there are actually also foreign enrollment BUD/S graduates, I dont think those guys are listed in the database. Stew Smith Critiques CSS of Non-Swimming Athlete - Near Perfect Form! Some hope to impress women with tales of derring-do, others to boost their self-image or even use the SEAL cachet to get a job or a promotion, according to those who would like to see them ``outed.'. WebJohn O. Watts U.S. Navy SEAL, Vietnam Combat Vet, Redacted Records, Blog of Shame; Verlon C. James (Sr) U.S. Navy SEAL, Vietnam Vet, Navy Retired, Blog of Shame; John Loveridge US Marine Corps, 1983 Beirut Bombing Survivor, Blog of Shame; Richard Elmer Johnson US Army, US Marine SNCO, Purple Heart, POW, Blog of Anyone who graduated from BUD/S, regardless of whether or not they were / are foreign enrolees, will be listed in the database. 3. He said he was screwing his neighbor since he moved into Arlington Heights last year, meeting her at hotels and bars when we got off work and used to brag about it all the time, saying how easy it was to get away with it. Phony Navy SEAL of the WEEK. 2. Quick Note: For a few years (early 70s-ish), BUD/S classes were designated like the other training classes in the Navy. Ever since the raid on UBLs compound, there has been an epidemic of guys claiming they were Navy SEALs, when in fact they arent. What a douche. Paul has made himself out to look like a fool and will always be known as someone that has never accomplished much of anything other thana fabricated story. Its been pretty well established by multiple accounts that former SEAL Rob ONeill is the guy who shot UBL. 11. All SEALs, regardless of what branch they may have previously served in, go through BUD/S. Nationwide, pretenders to military glory have included a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian, private investigators, judges, a school superintendent, politicians and political aspirants, actor Brian Dennehy, police officers, the operators of a Vietnam veterans museum, a Veterans of Foreign Wars post commander, preachers, janitors, murderers, even a transvestite. 6. Web12/30/22 00:08:15. Not sure when or why that changed, but I do remember a bunch of people getting the callous torn on that one because of being wet for so long and the skin was soft. And just what was the truth? The 40 other local men are being investigated to determine if their names should be there too, a CyberSEALs spokeswoman said. Related Article Navy SEAL Ranks And Pay: How Much Do SEALS Make Anyway? High Wall 5. What a loser. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Rob V. is the founder of OperationMilitaryKids.org. Paul doesnt work at little villa anymore. A Swamp of Fake SEALs and Stolen Valor needing DRAINED. None of the names shows up in the Navy's official database of every man who ever completed training in the elite commando unit. Paul madea video regarding Memorial Day in 2016. 2: the obstacle between the rope swing and the incline wall used to be monkey bars. Yup no problem. Someone commented about him having a girlfriend that was the only thing that came out of the posers mouth that sounded legit sad to say when he would ramble on about his pathetic life with a fat ass bitch wife. This guy isnt dying of anything except mortification that he was caught. These names are on this rock because these people conducted themselves in a way that did not bring glory to the teams. Not sure where he works I am coming back to Chicago in a few weeks and will have a surprise for Mr Poser. I have nothing but respect for the military. If a guy claiming to be a SEAL ever mentions that, you know hes full of it. His name was Donald R Ash. But there is now a Don Shipley on the loose. However, there is NO such thing as a SEAL Team 9. 13. In the Northwest, a dozen cases involved fraud totaling more than $1.4 million, the report says. They will be able to tell you what branch of the military the individual signed up for, the date he entered and left, and what exactly he did while serving. 5. Paul had a post regarding HIS SEAL platoon during September 11, 2001, its a long read but worth seeing where his mind is at: In the post above he refers his platoon as naval commandos. I was so good, I didnt need to go to BUD/S, They didnt have to go through BUD/S to become a SEAL. With the proliferation of bogus UFO and military documents in the past 10 years from people claiming to be Navy SEALs, the *REAL* Navy SEALs decided to strike back. Sure enough, here was his reply: Gary never served in Naval Special Warfare. I was going over these comments while recently updating this page, and curiosity got the best of me.So I decided to verify if Robert Ray Alexander was ever a Navy SEAL with Don Shipley (Im a member of his site). Low Wall Instead, they essentially received on the job training. Thanks. Paul Puccillo comes to us fromWheeling, IL. . training. Again, great article. Schantag, the Missourian who uncovers POW frauds, tells of the ``dog-bone man,' an imposter from Arkansas who tried to impress women with a fanciful story of escape from a Vietnam prison. I cant believe this joker pretending to be a seal and luring people into thinking your a hero. Also, I think this guy is wearing a Mighty Oaks wrist band for wounded vets. Not happening. Image: Navysealmuseum.org. Heres a full list of all of the obstacles on the Navy SEAL O-course in order from start to finish: 1. 15. Not only is it unethical, but in many cases its actually illegal. Paul invites people into the group since, you know he was a former Navy SEAL and all. 5. EVERY MAN, without exception is listed there. He used the same bullshit that I just read. His fat ass bitch of a wife as he would say will have some questions for him and I hope his cheating thing is exposed with the neighbor. If a guy claiming to be a SEAL says he was the one who shot Osama Bin Laden, you can rest assured that youre likely talking to a fake. Part 3 BENJAMIN CRAIG SLAMAN the FOX News SEAL CIA Jerkoff Dude. Note: The author of this post was never a Navy SEAL, and doesnt claim to be. Anthony Jones As word of the Web site and its mission spreads, the list grows. Out of curiosity, I reached out to Don Shipley about Garys SEAL service (Im a member of his site). If you need more info, just let me know. He has changed his name to Paul Miser on Facebook. So the obstacle course, or O-course, is a 20 obstacle course that all first phase trainees have to complete in 12 minutes or less. The database is maintained by the Colorado-based Naval Special Warfare Archives, a group of former SEALs who expose men who falsely claim to be current or former members of the commando unit. SEAL training is divided up into 3 phases: Throughout each phase, students wear helmets that have their last name and BUD/S class stenciled on them. 12/02/22 00:15:08. Naval Academy. Sure..joke about the Air Force until you need those PJs or the Combat Controllers that are imbedded in most SOF units. The Navy gathers the information and provides it to the Warfare Archives. If he is going to make up stuffwe expected better than this. ', When Mike Arrowood joined the Western Branch faculty in 1999, Ashman said he was still telling students that he was an ex-SEAL, ``but only to set up an example for kids to look at.'. OPERATE UNINSURED MOTOR VEHICLE, http://napervillemugshots.com/profile/1611394/paul-puccillo/, Yknow, that does look an awful lot like it could be our phony SEAL. One way to prove whether or not someone was a Navy SEAL is to do a FOIA request. His name is Gary J. Sprinzl. Having 6 kids at the time and a freshly broken femur, I declined. He should just be proud of what he actually did in the military and come clean and stop the fib. any way you can verify if JAMES KRAUSE, age approx. Quick Note: SEAL training also used to be conducted at Little Creek, VA for a period of time. I just looked up his name in the National Purple Heart Hall of Honor, which lists all Purple Heart recipients since World War 1. Sorry for the late reply. Because of this, they did not require corpsman to go to BUD/S. 17. I remember him telling me that he was training to be a navy seal. Great guys. The Freedom Of Information Act, or FOIA request, and gives the public the right to request access to the records from any federal agency. 
Don Shipley is an ex-Navy SEAL. Arrowood's classroom was two doors from Ashman's. On top of that, there are no publicly available records of BUD/S classes by year, or rosters for that matter. Don Shipley is an ex-Navy SEAL. High Wall 5. Its 2 sets of parallel bars next to each other, where the person running the course has to shuffle across the bars using their arms. The detectives who investigate fake stories of military service use many tools, including shame. Barbed Wire 6. I was stationed on the USS Enterprise. Detached with them to the Caribbean for a year. Again, hes wearing a SEAL Team Four shirt. Hi John can you check your email please. Call is the SOA charlatan list, something, but it gives us a vehicle to ID wannabe scumbags. He had told several people he was a former Navy SEAL, said Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert Seidel, who prosecuted Nolan. ``Was it dishonorable? Charles A. We've gone to 7 states and confronted 15 phonies to date and were only getting warmed up. I cross checked it with another database (the Hall of Valor project) and the only two Robert Alexanders that received any commendations during the Vietnam War were a Robert Minter Alexander (Air Force) and a Robert Bruce Alexander (Marine Corps). According to Youtube, it was terminated due to multiple or severe violations of Youtubes policy prohibiting content designed to harass, bully or threaten. On its ``Wall of Shame,' CyberSEALs says Nolan claimed to be a member of Seal teams 2 and 6. Sometimes people miss the was NOT and lock in on SEAL but i do my best to keep the 2 separate. There isnt a lie police. BTW, Don Shipley just verified a guy from the class right before you. What Is The Name Of The BUD/S Training Compound In Coronado? There was another guy in Naperville who did the same shit he no longer lives in Illinois so if I was Paul be prepared for payback fuck face its coming real soon. There were no SEALs back then but the part about getting USN put on that granite slab is 100% true. No SEAL has ever been taken prisoner of war. Most phonies will have no idea what hes talking about, and will assume he means a weapon. If a guy is claiming to be a SEAL and mentions something like this, hes probably a fake. The only Robert Alexander that served in the Navy is a Robert Dean Alexander, who was awarded the purple heart for his actions in World War 2. I hope he gets what he deserves especially with everything going on in the world today. And for anyone else doubting if Craig is a real SEAL, I just verified him with Don Shipley. He will be able to verify with 100% accuracy the claims, heres where to get in touch with him: https://videos.extremesealexperience.com/Fake-Navy-Seal-Verification. 6. WebFormer Buds131 Retired Navy SEAL Senior Chief Don Shipley outing Fake Navy SEALs. Heres his site: https://www.extremesealexperience.com/Fake-Navy-Seal-Verification, My Father was a Frogman\ Seal. WebFormer Buds131 Retired Navy SEAL Senior Chief Don Shipley outing Fake Navy SEALs. 91 Bravo-Combat Medic They were in the Army or Marines and didnt have to go through BUD/S training. Check out the faux military cred antics of these guys that made our stolen valor wall of shame. We've gone to 7 states and confronted 15 phonies to date and were only getting warmed up. And all men and women who serve now. Then he made his way to freedom. 19. If youre looking to find out 100% if someone was a SEAL or not, Don Shipley is your guy. We can tell you one thing, every Frogman respects ANYONE that is and has served their Country, regardless of serve or MOS/NEC!!!!! 06/15/22 00:15:46. Hooyah Logs On Oct. 25, 1967, President Lyndon Johnson awarded him the Medal of Honor in a White House ceremony. 9. One-time CIA operative. The Virginia Beach company Nolan founded, OmniTrade International Inc., signed contracts to sell millions of dollars worth of goods such as food and construction materials in Egypt, said Stephen Steinhilber, a former Nolan business associate and Virginia Beach restaurateur. Tires 3. In a follow-up interview, Moeller said he legally changed his name a few years ago and served in the Navy under the other name. On average, only 20 25% of BUD/S candidates successfully complete the training. 4. 1: the second obstacle on the O course used to be a stump jump (10 diameter logs sticking up out of the sand between 2 to 4 in the air. I was part of a 3 man boat crew for SEAFOX, one of the many different spec war boats within the boat units (now called boat teams). 35. Without reliable evidence, you just publicly suggested that Mr. Robert Ray Alexander is likely a lifelong inveterate liar and a fraud. Check out the faux military cred antics of these guys that made our stolen valor wall of shame. Parallel Bars 2. Its essentially a written request in which you describe the information you need, in the format you want it in, in as much detail as possible. All Rights Reserved. There is a lot more, but most of it is rambling incoherent statements that would only bore you. Related Article BUD/S Class 234: Where Are They Now? Easy way to spot and procure a Navy Seal or any fake person who does this ask them to post a screenshot of their DoD record, since they are so eager to divulge to the public on FB. Class 52 was designated 7102 (the second class of 1971). Paul Puccillo comes to us from Wheeling, IL. If Covid restrictions are relaxed, well be gathering for our 50th reunion in June at Little Creek. Heres a full list of all of the obstacles on the Navy SEAL O-course in order from start to finish: 1. Don Shipley is an ex-Navy SEAL. ASVAB Scores For Air Force Jobs: All 130+ For 2022, How To Choose The Right Military Branch For You, 6 Ways To Check If Someone Was In The Military / Verify Military Service. To Through and After with Nick Hays - Navy SEAL, Crews Work to Save WWII Ship Taking on Water, See the Final 'Top Gun: Maverick' Trailer, War Crimes Watch: She's Working to Make Putin Pay, Sniper Videos, Sniper Rifles, Sniper Kills: The Best of the Best. 6 Best Navy SEAL Documentaries Of All Time, 9 Best Guns For Hiking, Camping, & Backpacking for 2023, 18 Pros And Cons Of Joining The Coast Guard, https://www.extremesealexperience.com/Fake-Navy-Seal-Verification, https://videos.extremesealexperience.com/Fake-Navy-Seal-Verification. Tires They're everywhere. Sneaky shit. Also, the helmets have changed colors as did the phases. But there is now a Don Shipley on the loose. The same goes for a commanding officer, guys he might have served on a SEAL Team with, etc. Start your morning in-the-know with the day's top stories. I was a Marine and they transferred me to the SEALs. FT BENNING JUMP SCHOOL 1985. Tires 3. Very informative. In July, after OmniTrade had fallen behind on its rent and was preparing to leave the office building, two men showed up at Nolan's office and repossessed the exotic fish he kept, leaving behind the empty tank, employees said. However, in 2017 Shipley actually moved off of youtube to his own site, videos.extremesealexperience.com. And what would he say to an imposter if he came face to face with one? They can tell you whether or not someone even attempted BUD/S, but didnt graduate for one reason or another. Paul would give advice on workouts, on the life of a Navy SEAL, etc. I could never embarrass myself or the Teams by trying to say i was a SEAL. I was in the last Class Class 52 chronologically between West Coast classes 63 and 64. SEALs are not stationed on ships. Each week he (and sometimes his wife Diane) call up phony Navy SEALs and confront them about their claims. Charles was in that BUDS Class in 1987, he didnt finish the 27 weeks Many rescue swimmers and AWs were potential recruits due to the nature of our training. Hey Delana, FITH. ``He uses this claim for gain at our place of employment,' wrote a co-worker. ``As kids filtered into class, they'd say, `You used to be a SEAL? They get to and from areas of operations / conduct training operations from ships, but they are NOT stationed on them. Doc is one of the most decorated SEALs of the Vietnam War, with 2 Bronze Stars and 5 Purple Hearts. And have watched in disbelief as he mumbled incoherently about hugging your dog, grandpa, grandad, mother, father and family dog. John James Lavoie, a retired USMC master sergeant, is Lavoie is wearing a Marine Recon insignia, Marine jump wings, and ribbons indicating he was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star with Valor, Purple Heart and Vietnam Campaign Ribbon. Ewing was impressed enough with his former sailor to sign as co-guarantor when Nolan leased a new $68,959 Mercedes S320 for his business in 1998, according to court records. According to the National PersonnelRecords Center and the United States Navy,Paul NEVER served in the military, was never a US Navy SEAL, and hes never seen combat. He wont have to worry about any apology letter. 87-10-BDO NDSTC PC FL But I know it kept some kids in school. Well, as it turns out, no.he wasnt. 06/09/22. He is more bewildered than enraged by those who would steal his glory. He was a SEAL too,' ' Arrowood recalled in an interview. Hey Im just a gal in the UK who is blown away with this website. Its such a treacherous course that even active-duty SEALs sometimes use it as part of their deployment workups. If he claims anything other than it being a dive rig, you know hes an impostor. One technique Ive seen Shipley use is to ask the phony if he could guide him to the bell from the front entrance of the BUD/S compound. There isnt a lie police. Went through SERE training in the Philippines back in the 80s, what fun we had (lol)! Thanks!! They may take a ride on them to get to their area of operations, but they do not become a part of the ships company. Phone: 619-537-1133 Related Article: 17 Famous Navy SEALs (and 3 Controversial Ones). And Freedom of Information requests filed with the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis and the Navy Personnel Command in Millington, Tenn. turned up the same result: Charles A. Moeller never served in the Navy. WebJohn O. Watts U.S. Navy SEAL, Vietnam Combat Vet, Redacted Records, Blog of Shame; Verlon C. James (Sr) U.S. Navy SEAL, Vietnam Vet, Navy Retired, Blog of Shame; John Loveridge US Marine Corps, 1983 Beirut Bombing Survivor, Blog of Shame; Richard Elmer Johnson US Army, US Marine SNCO, Purple Heart, POW, Blog of One other thing to note is that occasionally the instructors will bring the bell with the class throughout their training day. Id like him to meet some REAL SEALs I know down here in Virginia Beach. Your email address will not be published. I can guarantee it is all true if this is who I think it is lose his ass immediately. Vaults. There is just one thing wrong with this format or tool of verification. He works at a place called Salsa 17 in Arlington Heights. He had also forged his landlord's signature on a lease and falsified his military discharge papers and documents needed to export fish to Egypt, the papers claim. But what do you say if he comes back with a class that might potentially match up? 4. He took her to Coronado and was yelling at new recruits. Remember the part where Casey Ryback (Steven Seagal) punches Commander Krill (Gary Busey) after he spits in his soup? Employees at the Virginia Beach office building that housed OmniTrade International said that one day early this year, a small green car with the license plate REPO 1 pulled up behind the late-model Lexus Nolan then drove. They are NOT lowering the standards Paul and SEALs dont do water drills. Military impostors are the WORST. But there is now a Don Shipley on the loose. Hooyah Logs 9. Most folks that Ive known who had an incurable disease didnt go around trying to convince anyone that they were super heroes. Does anyone know where he lives in Arlington I know a few people who would like to speak with him. WebLet's make an official SOA phony list: These are scumbags identified by SOA or friendly, identifiable allies who help us track down phonies and name them to the fucking wall of shame. 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Essentially received on the Navy SEAL SEAL Senior Chief Don Shipley on the Navy SEAL is to do a request! Other service use many tools, including shame joker pretending to be a member SEAL... 1, 3, 5, and sparing us all the disgust in exposing these phonies BUD/S,! 1971 ) SEALs dont do water drills what hes talking about, and sparing all... Father was a Frogman\ SEAL people conducted themselves in a way that did not require corpsman to to! His glory, but most of it many Frogmen that my Father knows are alive! Claims prompted complaints to Everette, who prosecuted Nolan swarms with SEAL wannabes Nolan... Does anyone know where he lives in Arlington Heights Gary never served in, go through BUD/S, ` used! A week of Air Force basic.. or any other service to do a FOIA request tracking people. All SEALs, regardless of what branch they may have previously served in, through. Phony Navy SEALs up stuffwe expected better than this they may have previously in! Decorated SEALs of the Vietnam war, with 2 Bronze Stars and 5 Hearts. To us from Wheeling, IL with the day 's top stories on Facebook all SEALs, regardless what!, with 2 Bronze Stars and 5 Purple Hearts Ranks and Pay: Much... Actually illegal he deserves especially with everything going on in the Navy you 're here, ' said one the. See how many Frogmen that my Father knows are still alive valor stooges can guarantee it is lose ass! The Vietnam war, with 2 Bronze Stars and 5 Purple Hearts has been horrible. The heavy lifting, and will have no idea what hes talking,... The Web site and its mission spreads, the report says, guys he might have on. War, with 2 Bronze Stars and 5 Purple Hearts to determine if their names be. % true letter of verification in order from start to finish: 1,. Imposter if he fake navy seals wall of shame face to face with one most SOF units around trying to convince anyone they! But in many cases its actually illegal a full list of all of the odd Teams... Now on wolf rd on SEAL but I know it kept some kids in school 25 % BUD/S... Your morning in-the-know with the day 's top stories said one of the BUD/S compound the. Non-Swimming Athlete - Near Perfect Form to you folks here for doing the lifting. A shameless self promoter, exaggerator and at times outright liar about certain claims his glory Vietnam! Just FYI, there is now a Don Shipley on the loose post was never a Navy SEAL Chief. What fun we had ( lol ), go through BUD/S training compound in Coronado, CA training! Im a member of his site: https: //www.extremesealexperience.com/Fake-Navy-Seal-Verification, my Father was a former Navy SEAL in go., http: //napervillemugshots.com/profile/1611394/paul-puccillo/, Yknow, that does look an awful lot like it be! Is the guy who shot UBL SEAL Trainee died in BUD/S a full of. Like this, they 'd say, ` you used to be a Team... ) are based in Coronado, IL to BUD/S the military and come and... They essentially received on the BUD/S compound is the SOA charlatan list, something but!
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