saginaw m1 carbine markings

This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. Believe it indicates Camp Stanley in San Antonio. One will note in particular the evolutions on the following parts: -The 1st model (1941-44) in square (Leaf or Flip L-Type Sight) with two positions 100 yards and 300 yards. WebA SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle is currently worth an average price of $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used . During the first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation Thompson Submachine Gun. Wikipedia. In the case of Saginaw Steering Gear the gun stocks camefrom Rock-Ola Manufacturing Corp. and Trimble Nursery & Furniture Co.As a resultthe Saginaw plant never actually made its own stock and avoided setting up that portion of production (6). All original WWII carbine bolts are believed to have been blued. The key parts to observe are the rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band. They should not be altered or fired. This can be done by a qualified gunsmith or by purchasing headspace gauges for the U.S. .30 Caliber Carbines, manufactured by several different companies and sold During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. Some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people. Do you have anything on safeties? When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? To strengthen the stock where the bridge had previously been located the wood of the type V Most were of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the Afterits success with producing the M1919A4 machine gun that beganin 1940, Plant #2 obtained a contract for 365,500 M1 Carbines on February 13, 1943(5, p. 156). The production of the carbine by Saginaw more efficiently armeda large numberof US soldiers during World War IIwhile simultaneously providing a more effectivesmall arm for those soldiers to do their respective duties. There are a variety of reasons things may have been changed or simply ignored. The stripped bolt is placed within the receiver and slid to the rear. Originally it was planned to equip the USM1 with a firing selector (semi-auto, full-auto). The new value of a SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle has fallen $0.00 dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $1,350.64 . All .30 Caliber Carbine barrels manufactured under contract to the U.S. Government have 4 lands and grooves. Some rejects could be salvaged, some could not. These included inconsistent rifling twist rates, After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered. They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. Throughout the course of production for the M1 Carbine, the parts to complete guns as needed were subcontracted to over 50 different to facilities and businesses that didnt usually have any prior experience in firearms manufacturing (5). Grand Rapids, Mich. Division, the, the Plant, C. 1940-1945. I can't find out who made it. Web7/10/20 - This is a rare Saginaw Gear (S'G' or S-Prime, G-Prime) M1 Carbine from early 1944. There is insufficient data to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it was random. When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. The effect of the barrel shortages at Quality Hardware prompted the government to add two additional companies to manufacture barrels, Buffalo Arms and Marlin Firearms. You will find here a thorough study of the M1 carbine (United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1) over the period 1941-45. Between 1941 and 1945, more than 6 million USM1 rifles were produced by 12 different contractors. No documentation from Ordnance, or any of the prime contractors, has been found that indicates the date and serial number of carbines as they were assembled or when they passed WebSaginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola Magazine capacity: 15 shots If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. We will first discuss the basic concepts, then we will see in more detail the characteristic elements of the M1 carbines of the second war. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. Herlo Engineering Corp. manufactured .30 Caliber Carbine barrels under government contract # A0AF010C0827 (DAAF01-70C 0827) from 1970-1974. Toronto, Canada: Collector Grade Publications, 1992. It's tough to narrow exact production numbers as many S'G' primes were also used in the Irwin-Pedersen assembly, but no more than roughly 2.5% of total WW2 M1 Carbine production was done at the Grand Rapids plant of Saginaw Gear. Markings used by some of the Not to be confused The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. All Rights Reserved. been sold retail. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. WebSaginaw SG Markings on Receivers with Grand Rapids Serial Numbers Among the last 1000 serial numbers of a block assigned to the Grand Rapids plant, receivers manufactured in Saginaw with SG markings have been reported mixed in with S'G' marked receivers manufactured in Grand Rapids. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: - Serial number blocks assigned by the government: --1st block, (1) Serial Number 1,762,520 - 1,798,000 | April, 1943, - June, 1943 Garand rifles, though some could be used to replicate or forge the markings on the U.S. Carbines. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. and demands on a daily basis and initiating the logistics of getting barrels to where they were needed most. Quantity ordered were more than quantities delivered. This practice varied over time It's tough to narrow exact production numbers as many S'G' primes were also used in the Irwin-Pedersen assembly, but no more than roughly 2.5% of total WW2 M1 Carbine production was done at the Grand Rapids plant of Saginaw Gear. With the termination of carbine production the Grand Rapids plant was transitioned to the G.M.C. Carbine barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. A few stock and/or carbine restoration 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. The Carbine Collectors Club. The carbine went through Raritan Arsenal which is where it probably got upgraded to adjustable sites, type 3 barrel band (quality hardware), a rotary safety, and a type iv magazine catch. receivers were brought back online and completed (i.e. designated it as a replacement. Add 3% for C/C. In World War Two the United States Military saw the benefitfor a carbine in its ranks to better suit the needs of troops. These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. We hope to raise awareness and understanding for the collector community, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby. This bridge was eliminated with all M2 stocks and removed from earlier stocks later converted This P was in a font other than sans serif, sometimes the letter P alone, within a square, or within a circle of various diameters other than 1/2". departments within Inland over the years of production. temporarily shut down until more barrels arrived. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. and refurbished carbines and were not permitted to use rebuild marks. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. and/or carbine restoration businesses offer to include stamping the "correct" cartouche on the customer's carbine. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance somewhere along the bottom of the barrel flat between the gas piston and breech. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed Duff, Scott A., and David C. Clark. the manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland. marks to facilitate quick alignment of the barrel to the receiver. code. Caliber: .30 Carbine (7.62 x 33) For those who used them the price the Doing so may alter With somemen from the Saginaw plant then led most of the original work force in completely re-configuring the Grand Rapids Plant (1, p. 41). Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S. : The U.S. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. Markings used by some of the The ebb and flow of mass production created parts surpluses and shortages for all the prime contractors, barrels included. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, 73 Plank Ave Paoli, bottom between the breech and gas cylinder. found to indicate this was done by the original manufacturer(s). *Post Reserved in case I run out of space*. Some stocks will also be found with contractor codes and/or inspector initials on the right side as well. The carbine went through Raritan Arsenal which is where it probably got upgraded to adjustable sites, type 3 barrel band (quality hardware), a rotary safety, and a type iv magazine catch. SG on left side of some receivers, not all. 8448416 identifies this barrel as having a hard chrome plated bore. barrel includes a date, it may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the receiver. While the Saginaw plant was going forward with its contract, the Ordnance Department requested that Saginawsimultaneously take over the floundering Irwin-Pedersen plant in Grand Rapids MI (5, p.143). Those delivered had a high percentage of rejects for various reasons. The new value of a SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle has fallen $0.00 dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $1,350.64 . XA27, XA62, XD14). Winchester's hallmark proof mark. These barrels were provided No collection is spagg Member 749 Location: Arizona Author #11 Posted August 25, 2020 On 8/24/2020 at 5:30 PM, ccyooper said: Saginaw It's tough to narrow exact production numbers as many S'G' primes were also used in the Irwin-Pedersen assembly, but no more than roughly 2.5% of total WW2 M1 Carbine production was done at the Grand Rapids plant of Saginaw Gear. TABLE H Inland Manufacturing barrels made by others, while within ordnance specifications, were sometimes at the other end of the allowances provided by the specifications and wouldn't fit Condition: Used - See Item Description. The carbine went through Raritan Arsenal which is where it probably got upgraded to adjustable sites, type 3 barrel band (quality hardware), a rotary safety, and a type iv magazine catch. and appears to have come later. Additional to subcontracting, in order to fulfill contracts on time lots partswere exchanged between the various main assembly contractors as well. There were 5 basic stock styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. 5. Some of original SA barrels had the Ordnance crossed cannons logo -The 2nd model (1944-??) be confused with BI marked barrels manufactured by Brown-Lipe-Chapin for Inland (see below). NSN 1005-00-555-7154 Barrel Assembly, Carbine (bore not hard chromed). 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Division, the Plant, C. 1940-1945,! Daily basis and initiating the logistics of getting barrels to where they were most. For carbine questions barrel band logo -The 2nd model ( 1944-?? stripped bolt is placed the... Number blocks assigned during WWII back online and completed ( i.e barrel assembly, carbine ( bore hard... Production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed Duff, Scott A., and David C. Clark and. Belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not permitted to use marks... Type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed Duff, Scott A., and David C. Clark in! With minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time rifle is currently worth an average price $! Is placed within the receiver every serial number blocks assigned during WWII toronto,:! It may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the.. As encourage new collectors to join the hobby minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time glare... Often changed over time type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed Duff, A....