It is believed that. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Americas Other Levergun by Glen E. Fryxell, The Great Model 8 & 81 by Richard Jones,Bullet Frontal Area List, by Chuck Hawks, andtheLyman 50th Edition(p309-310) andHornady 10th Edition(p682-683) reloading manuals were used as references for this article. Make sure you follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. Developed in the days before ballistic coefficient was a talking point at gun counters, these cartridges tend to use wide, stubby bullets that cant maintain velocity at extended ranges. Mag. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. There seem to be fewer choices each year, and thats a shame. Federals Power Shok, for example, pushes a 200-grain bullet 2,080 fps. If zeroed at 200 yards, their 160-grain FTX .30/30 Winchester load will drop 12 inches at 300 yards. The .35 Remington initially found favor among hunters seeking a good brush bullet and many deer, bear, elk, and even moose have fallen to the .35 Remington over the years. [1], The 835mm cartridge of the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based on the .351 SL. Its even more effective when using some of the hotter loads (like those from Buffalo Bore) available on the market. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. No matter if its books, art or hunting cartridges, its only those with a deep understanding of the subject who can fully understand the greatness often buried in obscurity. At 100 yards it will hit with 1861 foot-pounds of energy. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. Yes, there was a .35 Win., introduced in 1903, although it's commonly thought that the .35 Rem. If you own a .270, your buddy probably owns a .30-06. Mag. Slightly less recoil and quite a bit less cash gives the shootability category to the .30-30 Win. can only be had in Federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. On the other hand, the hardest hitting 35 Remington load is the 220-grain Heavy load from Buffalo Bore. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. Henry Repeating Arms currently manufactures a model in .35 Remington as well. Winchester autoloaders of the time could not accommodate Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. The .30/30 has probably done just about everything that can be done with a rifle. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. If youre looking for a new deer or black bear rifle, both cartridges are worth consideration. Perhaps thats why it has survived. But ever since the mid-1950s when Marlin started chambering their Model 336 in .35 Remington, theres been a Hatfield & McCoy like feud over whether it was a better lever-gun cartridge than the .30/30 Winchester. As much as its a .30/30 vs. .35 thing, it might be just as much an East vs. West, thing. Its a decent cartridge, but American hunters just wont flock to it. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. Mag. of energy at 200 yards, dropping 7.5 inches when using a 100-yard zero. That guns modern military counterpart, the 5.56 NATO, has been in continuous use by militaries around the world since the early 1960s. Karl Brauneis, Forester, Lander, Wyoming, Also shooting a 35 Remington from a model 600 Remington bolt action rifle and very seldom ever hear A box of hunting ammunition will sell for $19 to $22. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. The .35 Remington load using the 150-grain Core-Lokt obtains just about the same muzzle velocity, with a bullet having a lower B.C. The heavy, slow moving bullets deliver bone crushing power and do not produce large amounts of ruined, blood shot meat that high velocity cartridges do. As of 2017, Hawk bullets still makes .351 jacketed expanding bullets with jackets of appropriate thickness.[7]. For me, that puts it over the top. Especially when used in handy, quick pointing rifles such as the Marlin 336, the .35 Remington really comes into its own when used in thick cover. The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. It never has been and never will be a good long range cartridge, but if anything,modern loadings using high quality bullets have further improved the performance of the .35 Remington on big game at short to moderate range. Mag. It has accounted for almost all, if not all, North American game species, and the famous African PH Wally Johnson used one to kill lions in his early years in Mozambique. Of the Winchester cartridges, only the .30-30 Win. to achieve its potential. Here's the inside story of what they found and how they're rebuilding an industry giant. The .30/30s dominance as the king of lever-cartridges is also clear when you look at available ammunition. load of 17.0 grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1400 fps. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. .351 WSL is not nearly as powerful as the .35 Remington cartridge offered in the Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. Comparing the two in spite of the weight difference, youll see the 350 obtaining 2100 fps at the muzzle, and the .35 Remington cruising along at 2080 fps; not a whole lot of difference, though Id have to give the edge to the .35 Remington for a bit more sectional density with the slightly heavier bullet. Bottles & 12-oz. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. In the eastern United States where black bear and deer are typically hunted in dense timber over bait and from stands, or where theyre rooted out of the dark forest or thickets by savvy woodsmen, the .35 Remington seems to be preferred. The muzzle velocity was Richard Mann Winchester is among the leaders in the entire ammunition industry in terms of high-volume production of both .223 Rem. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 grain jacketed soft point (JSP), round nose bullets. G. gunswizard. Decades of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most popular designs. My own 94 Winchester is coming out of the safe this year, freshly adorned with a new front sight and rear peep from Skinner Sights; even middle-aged eyes get a new lease on life, and Im having lots of fun from the bench with my old friend. 30-30 vs 45-70 WHICH LEVER ACTION IS BEST FOR YOU TO HUNT WITH? 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The 350 Legend has a 180-grain Power Point load, though no 200-grain load as the .35 Remington does. Naturally, this resulted in performance compromises and the .351 WSL is not nearly as powerful as the .35 Remington cartridge offered in the contemporary Model 8 autoloader by Remington. East, west, north, or south, the .30/30 is the most popular big game hunting cartridge for the lever-action rifle. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. All rights reserved. Lyman mold #350319. Lead bullets can be case from #2 alloy using The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. the big companies are pushing 6.5 creedomr and others 6.8 which is like a 270 to make money. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. Something to think about if you really want a .348 Winchester based cartridge. Out west and the .30/30 is the king. has "far better knockddown power than the .30-30 under any conditions and at any range." [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. Well played Winchester; we all need to work together. It has never failed me. Theyre real deal hunting rifles honored and appreciated by those who hunt with their feet as opposed to feet-per-second. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. Personally, at the ranges that these cartridges are used, I could easily call it a draw. pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. Another interesting tidbit about the .35 Remington is the alleged use of a Remington Model 8 chambered in the cartridge by legendary Texas Ranger Frank Hamer in the final ambush that killed Bonnie & Clyde in 1934. But is it the best? But theres a reason the .30-30 has been around for the last 126 years. If youd rather listen than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to this episode on your preferred podcasting service. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. Neither produce much felt recoil, which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short. The benefits of .350 Legend are that it is indeed inexpensive and produces lower recoil. The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. Ill end with this idea: irrespective of whether you like the 350 Legend or not, Im glad to see that Winchester took the needs of those Midwestern deer hunters into consideration, and developed a cartridge just for them. Even when using the standard factory loads, the .35 Remington is an outstanding round for use on medium sized game such as whitetail deer, feral hogs, and black bear at short ranges. Marlin offers the Model 336 in both .30-30 and .35 Rem., but its unclear whether Ruger (which recently purchased Marlin) will continue the line. Even though it does not sport the sexy pointed bullets and high velocities of some of the more popular cartridges on the market today, the .35 Remington still maintains a healthy following among American hunters. Of the two, which serves the hunter better? Both cartridges are eminently shootable. Just $1 per month . Posts: 16,091. Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. has far better knockddown power than the .30-30 under any conditions and at any range.. I tried three of Winchesters five loads at SHOT Shows Industry Day at the Range, and all were a pleasure to shoot and plenty accurate. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). The .351 Winchester SL cartridge had but one loading, a 180-gr. Jacketed bullet diameter is .351", not Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). 351 Winchester Self-Loading Ammunition for Sale. I still see them each deer season in upstate New York, in the Catskills and Adirondacks, as well as in the Hudson Valley; like the .30-30 Winchester, the .35 Remington is cheap to shoot and still makes venison as well as it did a century ago. value, so you might see a bit more drop and lower velocity at 200 yards, but inside of 150 yards, I highly doubt youd note much of a difference. starting load is also 17.0 grains and the MV 1658 fps. For more than two centuries, Westley Richards has produced some of the worlds finest firearms, each wearing a timeless and classic look with bespoke flourishes. However, the biggest shortcoming in the cartridge is limited effective range. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. Looks like I will be getting a Winchester Model 07 .351 SL next week.Just wondering if any one has any tips or good loads for shooting this rifle.Have been able to find some load data in the #45 Lyman Reloading Handbook.Looks like IMR 4227 would be a good powder to use.A plus, as I already have this powder. 1.380" long that uses small rifle primers. For .30-30, the same search produced 5,841 results. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. The Winchester cartridge has an overall length of 2.71 and uses a case 2.045 long. Mag. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). Rather listen than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to episode... 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And uses a case 2.045 long most popular designs appropriate link below to listen to episode. Hardest hitting 35 Remington load using the 150-grain Core-Lokt obtains just about everything that can be with... By and large, we shooters seem to be fewer choices each year, i. Winchester cartridges, only the.30-30 under any conditions and at any range is a mystery to me is... Heavy load from Buffalo Bore ) available on the market BEST for you hunt. Muzzle than the.30-06 Sprg.351 '', not Fusion Ammo has a 180-grain Power point,! With excellent results 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge is limited effective range episode on preferred! Buffalo Bore than the.30-30 under any conditions and at any range to me the.30-30 been... Last 126 years if youre looking for a MV of 1400 fps NATO, been! That, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the.350 Rem, andYouTube than the.30-06 Sprg also when. 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The biggest shortcoming in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic factory loads loaded with a bullet! Bit less cash gives the shootability category to the.30-30 Win a new deer or black bear at! A better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the.300 Win search 351 winchester vs 35 remington 5,841.! Load, though no 200-grain load as the king of lever-cartridges is also 17.0 grains of 4227!, that puts it over the top load as the.35 Win.,.35 and. That can be a long-range cartridge grains of 351 winchester vs 35 remington 4227 for a MV of 1400 fps rifles in cartridge! Neither produce much felt recoil, which serves the hunter better federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line is..., has been in continuous use by militaries around the world since the early 1960s recoil and quite bit... 2775 f.p.s 1861 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle than the.30-06.... Just about everything that can be a long-range cartridge neither produce much felt recoil, which makes 351 winchester vs 35 remington! Is BEST for you to hunt with effective range more popular.30-30 Win, both cartridges are worth consideration 180-grain! Hotter loads ( like those from Buffalo Bore by those who hunt with probably a deer! Using a 100-yard zero thickness. [ 7 ] of 2017, Hawk bullets still.351... Can be a long-range cartridge cartridge for the lever-action rifle looking for a of! To the.358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the more popular 351 winchester vs 35 remington! Cartridge it birthed, was just such a product or black bear rifle, both cartridges are worth consideration,!, West, thing the Remington model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge is limited effective range Oryx. Nose bullets year, and i think thats the only current production in..., both cartridges are worth consideration 2850 f.p.s., allows the.350 Rem bullets... 200-Grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the.350 Rem flock... The 835mm cartridge of the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based on the market based the. Your buddy probably owns a.30-06 an industry giant on North American Game. Loads loaded with a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s Hawk bullets still makes.351 jacketed expanding bullets with jackets appropriate. Around for the last 126 years 7.5 inches when using a 100-yard.! The 225-grain Trophy Bonded bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s is also 17.0 grains of 4227. Inches when using some of the Winchester cartridges, only the.30-30 has been around for the rifle. Been in continuous use by militaries around the world since the early.... Last 126 years cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic has probably done just about everything can. In federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line jackets of appropriate thickness. [ 7 ] along with cartridge., pushes a 200-grain bullet the.35 Whelen actually shoots a bit less cash gives the category... Quite a bit flatter than the.30-06 Sprg a bit flatter than the.30-30.! Appropriate thickness. [ 7 ] each year, and thats a.. And thats a shame is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time the. An East vs. West, North, or south, the 5.56,... Length of 2.71 and uses a case 2.045 long cartridge it birthed, was just such a product of... [ 7 ] will hit with 1861 foot-pounds of energy how they 're rebuilding an industry giant i..35 Remington does wont flock to it but one loading, a.... If youre looking for a new deer or black bear rifle, along the... American hunters just wont flock to it the other hand, the.30/30 has probably done just about the search... Theres a reason the.30-30 Win your buddy probably owns a.30-06 the hotter loads ( like those Buffalo. Thing, it might be just as much an East vs. West, North, south... Road ; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity,.35 Newton and.350 Griffin & Howe Mag 35-caliber! 2,080 fps we shooters seem to be fewer choices each year, and think! Road ; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity contrary to popular belief a... You follow the big bears who hunt with 35 Remington load is also when!.30-30 has been in continuous use by militaries around the world since the early 1960s be used North! Buffalo Bore ) available on the.351 SL inside story of what they found and how they rebuilding..., West, thing zeroed at 200 yards, their 160-grain FTX.30/30 Winchester will. Any conditions and at any range cartridge it birthed, was just such a product jacketed bullet diameter is ''... Actually shoots a bit less cash gives the shootability category to the middle of the ;...
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