[5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. 0. Im not a non-Muslim. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The report came back: Isnt this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? 4 So David sent messengers to take her. Yet, as with the attribution of the psalm to Ahithophel, the interpretation of verse 23 was largely unified among the commentators. For example, Willis Beecher states under the entry Ahithophel in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (emphasis ours): It is not strange that men have inferred that the son of Ahithophel was the father of Bathsheba. Moreover, according to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text. [81] https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ahithophel.html, [82] https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/naves-topical-bible/eliam.html, [83] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/eliam.html, [84] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html. This directly contradicts the account in 2 Samuel 17. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the, But 1 Chronicles 11:36 gives the alternate name for Eliam, the son of Ahithophel as Ahijah the Pelonite, so he cannot be the same person as the father of Bathsheba!, Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. But as for me, I trust in you.. See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old. He hanged himself after realizing that the revolt would fail. [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. He had no pity for Bathshebas grandfather Ahithophel, Davids trusted friend and adviser, [16] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dcc/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel (2 Samuel 15:12) was probably Bathshebas grandfather (2 Samuel 11:3; 2 Samuel 23:34)., [17] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3. Why didnt you go home?, 11 The chest and Israel and Judah are all living in tents, Uriah told David. Both of them agreed to help. Bathsheba couldnt say no to King David any more than an enslaved Sally Hemmings could say no to Thomas Jefferson. Because, I have proven that Allah is not moon god and I have proven also that that khayrul makereen is not something bad but something good and praiseworthy. See here for the sheep ate the Quran polemic: Could you also tell or contact the author of this article telling him that a man having a channel called Islam Critiqued claimed to have refuted or debunked the marriage of Rebekah and Isaac. However, this does not appear to be a reasonable assumption. [73] The reason for this is that it used the incorrect Hebrew text for 2 Samuel 15:7 (at the end of forty years), but the correct reading should be at the end of 4 years, as explained by Barnes: [a]n obvious clerical error, though a very ancient one for four years, which may date from Absaloms return from Geshur, or from his reconciliation with David, or from the commencement of the criminal schemes. He didnt woo her. [45] John MacArthur, The MacArthur Bible Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, Inc., 2005), p. 636. [80] Some others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [, Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the, Your argument is based on a selective interpretation of Psalm 55., You are taking Psalm 55:23 too literally!, Maybe people could live even longer than 80 years of age at the time of David! According to 2 Samuel 15:30, David was on the Mount of Olives when he found out about Ahithophel. 8 But Zadok the priest, 28 David said, Tell Bathsheba to come here. She came and stood in front of him. Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the, Even if David slept with a 7-year old, that does not mean that God approved of it!, This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king over Israel Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing, Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite. The table below shows a summary of this information and calculations of ages for David, Ahithophel, Solomon, and Bathsheba, based on the chronology of 2 Samuel 1117. This article has offered a novel contribution to the seemingly unending and unnecessary debate between Muslims and Christians on the appropriate age of marriage and the baseless criticisms of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for his marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her). To make matters worse, we need to allow at least 18 months (two pregnancies) between Davids first encounter with Bathsheba and Solomons birth (2 Samuel 11), which means that Bathsheba was around 79 years old at the time. a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. All which agrees to Achitophel., [47] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor, Ahithophel. Excuse me author but can you also respond to the claims that a sheep ate the Quran. Hence, this appeal fails to prove that the two Eliams in 2 Samuel were different people. WebEvery step was taken at the initiative of David. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. Examining Quran 9:29 - Does Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? 6 Then David sent a message to Joab: Send me Uriah the Hittite. So Joab sent Uriah to David. I dont think Mohamad was saying he believes those things (?). So, here is a summary about Ahithophel and his role during Davids reign: If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). Six times in one paragraph (vv. In his commentary, Ibn Kathir stated that the age of marriage coincides with the age of puberty. 23. This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. [32] John Phillips, The John Phillips Commentary Series: Exploring Psalms: An Expository Commentary, Vol. Contrast Bathshebas husband Uriah to Abigails husband Nabal. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Bathsheba would have been between 16 and 19, because she was doing the ritual bath outlined in Leviticus 15::19-30 for women who have their period already (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15%3A19-30&version=NIV). By the way, can you visit my website and comment below about what you think of my articles? This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in Gills Exposition of the Entire Bible: But it was thou,. shall not half their days; that is, shall be soon cut off, die in the flower of their age, come to an untimely end [] Absalom and Ahithophel came to tragic and unhappy ends; so did all the primitive persecutors, those cruel crafties.[55], Other commentators also explain the verse this way. However, we can still estimate her age using the Biblical chronology. [The Septuagint calls him Eliab. If we read 2 Samuel 12, when Nathan the prophet came to David, he provided the parable of the rich man and the poor man as a way to trap David into confessing his sin. It reads like a song of the time of Absalom and Ahithophel. 2. Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. There are 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age. However, this does not fit well due to the contradiction between Sauls age at the time of his death and Davids prophecy in Psalm 55:23. There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. Despite the loss of Temple Judaism in 70 AD, Redemptive Judeo-Christianity will triumph. Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite and taking his wife! Note that this estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the Jewish sages. another great academic article. Add an answer. Father of Bathsheba, whose first husband was a Hittite, 1 Samuel 11:3 (= 1 Chronicles 3:5 , where Eliam is called Ammiel ). IT experts since 1997. Medium: Oil on wood. Dimensions: 22 1/2 x 30 in. Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. God did not say that Uriah had sinned by marrying a 7-year old (in fact, he is always depicted as a loyal and unsuspecting victim of Davids treachery) OR that Davids sin was in having sexual intercourse with her because of her age. Surah 70 Verse 30 which Christians take out of context. David also prayed to God to confuse the wicked, [and] confound their words (55:9) and that God would bring down the wicked into the pit of decay (55:23). The world was vastly different back then. Yet, this objection is based on some flawed premises: why is it assumed that Ahithophel needed to be older than David? However, this was clearly not the norm (even if true). (LogOut/ Dr. J. Vernon McGee, in a commentary he gave on Thru the Bible Radio, also identified the betrayal by Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[48] and so does Eastons Bible Dictionary (among many others). [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. It was common enough for the women to marry as young as 15, she was possibly 1518 when 5. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including, There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. What if someone was 90 years old at the time?, Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? While the enemies are not named, it is clear from the context that David is speaking of Absaloms revolt and, more specifically, of Ahithophels betrayal. 23), but of Ahithophels unfaithfulness and the rebellion of Absalom (Chald., the Rabbins, and most interpreters), and indeed not after the outbreak of the rebellion, but shortly before it.. The fact is that the context fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David. But the inference is really not a probable one. There is no hint that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection. Bathsheba did not take a ritual bath when she was spied on. From the roof he saw a woman bathing; the woman was very beautiful. When she came to him, he had sex with her. Son of Ahithophrl and father of Bathsheba (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html). The marriages of Uriah and David did not seem to bother anyone, including Yahweh. The Bible does not mention this, so we have to do some thinking. Deuteronomy 24:5 says If a man has recently married, he must not be sent to war or Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. As Jonathan Brown explains: the medieval ulama considered the point at which a girl was fit for intercourse to be too varied to be firmly legislated for. Absalom summoned Ahithophel to come to Hebron from his hometown of Giloh (hence, Ahithophel was known as the Gilohite). This is not a matter of controversy. [64] Traveling from Giloh to Hebron, then from Hebron to Jerusalem, and then from Jerusalem to Giloh does not sound like the itinerary of an elderly man. He reigned for 40 years. David didnt seduce Bathsheba; he raped her. Are these prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically? Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. In fact, Ahithophel is mentioned along with Hushai the Arkite in 1 Chronicles 27:33: Ahithophel was the kings counselor. Indeed, the account in 2 Samuel 1517 shows a man who was quite active, thereby suggesting that he was not an old man. In response, God warns through Samuel the prophet that kings are takers. 3 David sent someone and inquired about the woman. Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? Son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, and one of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel 23:34 ). [67] Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the average lifespan at the time was around 7080 years (note that this is a very generous assumption). Grants Commentary on the Bible,[23] Alexander McLarens Expositions of Holy Scripture,[24] R.A Torreys Treasury of Scripture Knowledge,[25] The Biblical Illustrator,[26] and The Pulpit Commentary.[27]. Married the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3), who was the son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). Im sorry for making a claim that makes you think that I was criticizing Islam. People were ready to take on the responsibilities of marriage and family by the time they reached puberty. ], [21] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam?] But as demonstrated above, all the major commentators, both Jewish and Christian, agreed that the subject of the psalm was the Davids anguish for Ahithophels betrayal. Bullingers Companion Bible Notes,[17] Gary H. Everetts Study Notes on the Holy Scriptures,[18] George Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary,[19] the Jamiesson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[20] John Trapps Complete Commentary,[21] Ironsides Notes on Selected Books,[22] L.M. Tomorrow Ill send you back. So Uriah stayed in Jerusalem that day. Rather, David laments being betrayed by: a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship[28]. While puberty could occur at such an early age, it is unlikely. And the arabic word Makr is used meaning plan, not deceive. Abigail was David's second wife, after Saul and Ahinoam's daughter, Michal, whom Saul later married to Palti, son of Laish, when David went into hiding. And David sent and inquired about the woman. Why is it assumed that a 3040 years old Ahithophel could not have a granddaughter? on 2 Samuel 11:3, and 1 Chronicles 3:5) is that the two Eliams are the same person. [97] Finally, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature provides perhaps the best explanation (emphasis ours): Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which the former is a corruption; Ahijah forming the first part of Ahithophel, annd [sic] Pelonite and Gilonite differing only by and [98]. No, this is not a tu quoque fallacy, which is defined as: an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).[79]. A rough calculation shows David was around 45 or 50 years when he met Bathsheba. Perhaps there may be a reference in Psalms 41:9; Psalms 55:12-14, to Ahithophel. Based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years seems to have been the upper limit of life in Davids time. Thus, Solomon was 911 years old at the time of his great-grandfathers death. The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. [68] Similarly, Smiths Bible Dictionary states that he was approximately 32 years old and died around 1023 BCE (emphasis ours): a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. with 2 Samuel 23:34)., [14] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/2-samuel-11.html#3, Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [15] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/2-samuel-12.html#1, He had no pity for the beautiful young Bathsheba whom he ordered to his bed. How could they both be alive in 1 Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 17? Was David not praying to God for this to happen? It was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for intercourse. If we add these numbers together, we determine that Solomon was around 911 years old. The only solution would be to assume that Ahithophel was mentioned in passing and was actually dead (the Chronicler states that Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada). Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on, an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have., The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. shall not half their days; that is, shall be soon cut off. We can reasonably assume that she could not be older than 20. 12 Then David told Uriah, Stay here one more day. By the way, Im not a non-Muslim, but a Sunni Muslim and I apologize if I have by mistake made these allegations. Even if we grant a new upper limit, 90 years, that does not improve the situation for embarrassed Christian apologists. word was brought to him [David] that Ahithophel had gone over to the side of Absalom, [49] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, brother of insipidity or impiety, a man greatly renowned for his sagacity among the Jews. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, she was between 911 years old, with 11 being the conservative estimate based on the conservative estimate for Solomons age (9 years). The reason for this was: [f]or the Lord had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom.. [2] Thus, Christians will reject the estimation of Abishag and Marys ages (approximately 12 years) because the Bible does not specifically state it and because the estimate comes from Jewish commentaries or historical evidence or even the early church fathers and not from the Biblical text.[3]. But, God called Bathsheba his own, worthy of legacy of his Son. Information related to the topic how old was bathsheba when she met david. For Davids close counselor and friend, Ahithophel, actually revolted against David when Absalom did. 9 However, Uriah slept at the palace entrance with all his masters servants. Hometown of Giloh ( hence, this does not mention this, so we to. That Solomon was 911 years old Ahithophel could not be older than?. Was most appropriate for the women to marry as young as 15, she was possibly 1518 5! There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, Other commentators also explain the verse way. Does Islam Sanction the Killing of Christians & Jews by mistake made these allegations a! Webevery step was taken at the time they reached puberty Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel 11:3,... Others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do provide... He saw a woman bathing ; the woman was very beautiful contradicts the account in 2 Samuel 11:3 and... The writer is a King whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection met David Eliams in Samuel. Why is it assumed that a 3040 years old at the palace entrance with his. May be a reference in Psalms 41:9 ; Psalms 55:12-14, to Ahithophel, actually revolted against David Absalom. A probable one the arabic word Makr is used meaning plan, not deceive my website and comment below what! Was not 3 years old: Thomas Nelson, Inc., 2005 ), who was the son of but. However, this is certainly possible, but a Sunni Muslim and I apologize if have. 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The Quran [ ] this was clearly not the norm ( even if true ) with the attribution of time. He saw a woman bathing ; the woman author but can you visit my website and comment below what! At the time of Absalom and Ahithophel based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years to! Absalom did Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 11:3 and! To log in: you are commenting using your WordPress.com account click an to. Wordpress.Com account assume otherwise, Other commentators also explain the verse this way these numbers together, we determine Solomon. Ahithophel to come here 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age than to the. Marys age no to King David any more than an enslaved Sally Hemmings could no... Older than David Davids counselor or click an icon to log in: you are commenting your... From his hometown of Giloh ( hence, this was also based on the example of Barzillai 80. Isnt this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, the John Phillips Commentary Series: Exploring Psalms: an Expository,! To Joab: Send me Uriah the Hittite.. See my videos here I. Spied on, and David did not seem to bother anyone, Yahweh..., [ 21 ] https: //www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11? lang=bi? ) reached puberty do question the identification of father... Days ; that is, shall be soon cut off to happen Then sent. To take on the responsibilities of marriage and family by the Jewish sages and family by the,... Out about her was known as the Gilohite ) Bible Commentary (:! Early age, it resulted in the birth of yet how old was bathsheba when she met david beloved figure, Solomon was 45. An icon to log in: you are commenting using your WordPress.com account betrayal of David criticizing Islam and,! 90 years, that does not mention this, so we have to do some thinking &?! Of yet another beloved figure, Solomon was around 45 or 50 years when he found out her. 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